Africa my Janmabhoomi, India now my Karmabhoomi, says new South African envoy Anil Sooklal 

South Africa's new high commissioner to India, Anil Sooklal, has said his mandate in India will be to "build on that very strong foundation" and to "expand exponentially this relationship on all fronts of cooperation". Sooklal, who is South Africa's first Indian-origin High commissioner to Delhi, speaking to WION's Sidhant Sibal said, "I'm very blessed because I'm African, in the sense that my Janmabhoomi is Africa, and now my Karmabhoomi is India. So I am a blend of both African and Indian in one package. I'm proud of both identities."

The new High Commissioner presented his credentials to Indian President Droupadi Murmu earlier this week. In the past, he was South Africa's Sherpa to the BRICS grouping and G20. Commenting on South Africa's incoming G20 Presidency, he said, "It's the first time that the G20 summit comes to an African country. And I think this is a proud moment, not just for South Africa. It's a proud moment for all of Africa that it will demonstrate that Africa is equally capable of rising to the occasion". This is Sooklal's first-ever interview with an India-based channel since presenting their credentials. 

Also read: In a first, India sends defence attachés to African nations, Armenia, Philippines. What's behind the move?

Earlier this week, President Lula handed over the G20 Gavel to South Africa's President Cyril Ramaphosa in Rio. Importantly, this time the G20 Troika, a governance structure that grouping as 3 global south countries as members- India, Brazil and South Africa. Full interview.

Sidhant Sibal: What is your mandate here, key vision for you here?
Anil Sooklal: Let me say that my mandate is very clear from President Ramaphosa, come and strengthen and expand relations with India, a country with whom we have strong historical ties, very strong historical and friendly relations, and a history that binds us in our common struggle for freedom that both countries share. And of course, we have the common factor of the indentured Indian community that's an integral part of South Africa today. I'm a product of that and the Gandhi factor that binds India and South Africa by the umbilical cord. So it's a relationship that's multi-layered, multi dimensional, and a very deep and historical relationship. So my mandate is to come and build on that very strong foundation that is already in existence and to expand exponentially this relationship on all fronts of cooperation.

Sidhant Sibal: You are the first Indian-origin high commission of South Africa to India. There is a considerable Indian diaspora in South Africa. So as the first Indian-origin envoy to India, essentially, if you can talk about yourself

Anil Sooklal: Well, I think I'm very blessed because I'm African, in the sense that my Janmabhoomi is Africa, and now my Karmabhumi is India. So I am a blend of both African and Indian in one package. I'm proud of both identities. My great-grandparents left India and arrived in South Africa in 1893 as indentured laborers and were assigned to a sugar plantation in southern KwaZulu Natal. And interestingly, the year when my fore-parents arrived in South Africa was precisely the year that Mahatma Gandhi also arrived in South Africa in 1893, so we share that history also. And as you know, the arrival of Indians and the arrival of Gandhi in South Africa transformed South African society and also added a new richness to the tapestry that is the multicultural, multiracial, multi dimensional society that South Africa is today. I'm very proud to be of that ancestry, and I'm equally proud to represent my country, South Africa, in what ranks as one of our most important bilateral relations today, our relationship with India, because India has very historical ties to South Africa. On the political front, even before you became a democracy in 1947 and had your own independence, you started championing the interests of the majority of South Africans and supported the liberation movement. You were the first country as early as 1946 predating your own independence, to apply economic sanctions on the South African apartheid regime, and this was followed by comprehensive sanctions, including political, social, cultural and people-to-people sanctions. But this started a global wave to isolate the apartheid regime and to put pressure on the apartheid regime to take into account the interest of all South Africans and especially the oppressed majority. But as I've indicated, also historically, South Africa provided the platform for Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who arrived in South Africa as a young barrister to fight a legal case for one of the Indian business people in South Africa, and he transformed from a young lawyer into the freedom fighter that returned to India after 21 years in South Africa. So South Africa was the platform where he evolved as a person, but more importantly, his philosophy of life shaped his contribution to India's freedom struggle, both in terms of the two major streams of thought that he evolved in South Africa of Satyagraha and Ahimsa, which shaped not only Indian politics, but it shaped the politics of the civil rights movement in the USA. Martin Luther King was deeply influenced, and it shaped the politics of South Africa because the first political organization to be formed in South Africa, which even predates the African National Congress that was founded in 1912 was the Indian National Congress in 1894, soon after Mahatma Gandhi arrived and experienced racism and discrimination and the inhuman treatment meted out the majority South Africans. So it was, in many sense, a very transformational experience, not just for Gandhi, but for South African society as a whole, especially the oppressed majority, to better organize ourselves as a political formation and champion our freedom struggle as a collective, as the oppressed majority. So I don't know of any other country that has such a strong historical bondage at the level that we have between South Africa and India.

Watch | India-South Africa mark 30 years of diplomatic ties

Sidhant Sibal: So you gave your in-depth view about the history and history of India and South Africa, how we are so connected in the past, but today in the present. If you can shed some light on where one can expect and what is the present status?

Anil Sooklal: As I've indicated, the relationship is multi-layered. It has a very rich bilateral aspect. It has a very rich multilateral aspect and equally rich trilateral and plurilateral aspects to it. If you look firstly at the bilateral relationship, our relationship this year is 30 years old on the diplomatic front. But as I have stated to you, the relationship between our two countries predates the formal establishment of bilateral relations with the establishment of embassies in Pretoria and New Delhi in 1994 but one of the first major developments since we established bilateral relations took place in 1997 when President Mandela paid a state visit to India, and it was during that state visit we signed the Red Ford Declaration, which enhanced our relationship to the level of a strategic partnership, which is what it is today, and that laid the foundation for us to establish interaction at all levels. At the intergovernmental level, a number of bilateral agreements have been signed on a whole range of issues, from trade to culture to science to sports to agriculture, technological Cooperation, capacity building, all of these areas have been addressed comprehensively through the bilateral agreements we have signed, and we continue to sign agreements in order to further enhance the relationship. So on the bilateral front, also, it's not just at the intergovernmental level that we have very strong relations, high-level visits that have taken place. All of our heads of state, from President Mandela to current president Ramaphosa, have been to India on bilateral visits, as well as on the Indian side. From the time of our democracy, we've had all of the Indian Prime Ministers and presidents visiting South Africa. So there's a regular exchange at the highest level, but also at the ministerial level, at senior officials level, we have a constant exchange of officials, of our principals, and that underpins and solidifies this relationship, and it will continue to grow in strength. The People to People interaction, is a dynamic part of this relationship, not just because of the historical ties, but because of the similarities of our societies. We are both vibrant democracies, India and South Africa, and therefore we are natural partners, not only at the government-to-government level, but our people identify with each other. We are countries of the global South, leaders in our own right in our region, and also projecting leadership globally, in terms of the global South, in terms of where we'd like to see this relationship evolve, and providing much-needed guidance at a very critical and divisive moment in human history. Now at the multilateral level, we are natural partners. We both believe in the value of multilateralism. We both believe in the value of the United Nations system, and we both also have the same perspective in terms of reforms of the global governance institutions, be it the UN system, be it the Bretton Woods system, be it the WTO, all of the multilateral institutions, we have been collectively calling for reform, and that is why, way back in 2003 we formed a trilateral partnership by three vibrant democracies, Brazil, South Africa and India, traversing three different continents, but wedded by the same values of the centrality of multilateralism, the centrality of the purposes and principles of the UN Charter. And of course, our dedication to the centrality of the human person, respecting fundamental freedom and human rights as being key pillars, and another very important key pillar of the IPSA trilateral cooperation is on the development agenda, which has featured so prominently during India's G20 chairship, because these are common challenges, the challenges of the global south and of emerging market economies like India, South Africa and Brazil. So we created the IPSA fund for poverty and hunger alleviation, where, collectively, the three of us have demonstrated that South-South cooperation can also provide an alternate model in addressing the developmental challenges of the developing world and that we can provide leadership in this direction. And that is why that fund has been so instrumental in changing the lives of millions of people in all continents. Of course, the other very important entity that brings us together is BRICS. And BRICS today is a powerful instrument of the Global South. You have seen that the first expansion of BRICS  took place when India supported South Africa's admittance into BRICS in 2011 as well as the other members at that stage, but the first major expansion of BRICS took place last year, and we collectively recognize that BRICS is today established as a major global entity, championing not just the issues of the Global South, but calling for a more fair, just inclusive global architecture, where the majority population of the world, the Global South, that comprises over 85% of the world population, is today relegated to the margins. And we are saying, No, the world has changed dramatically since 1945 when we launched the United Nations system. We have a very different architecture and complexion of world society today. Today, leadership is being provided by the Global South. We saw this through the other major, major multilateral instrument that we have today, the G20 and when India hosted the G20 last year and was the president, you elevated the fundamental position of the global south community onto a higher plane. You made development the center stage of your G20 presidency, and you launched the voice of the Global South. You've had three editions of The Voice of the Global South, chaired by Prime Minister Modi, to champion the issues that are so dear to each and every one of us. And therefore we had a very successful G20 presidency. But equally important, you brought sharp focus to the African continent, because it was under your G20 presidency that the African Union was made a full member of the G20 and the recently concluded G20 summit now in Rio, for the first time, the African Union could sit there as a full member. And all of Africa was very proud of this moment, which was made possible because of India championing our inclusion, in true the G20 family, and especially, we know that Prime Minister Modi lobbied heavily the G20 leaders prior to the summit last year in Delhi for the inclusion of the African Union. So we feel now that the G20 has been enriched and the African not only the African voice, the African presence there, is not only going to benefit the African community continent. It's going to benefit the G20 as a whole. And I believe it's going to enrich global society as a whole that you have a major part of the world now sitting rightfully at the G20 table. Of course, the other issue that is critical to us is reform of the United Nations Security Council. The current makeup of the Security Council has rendered it a paralyzed institution. We have seen that the mandate that the Security Council has in terms of ensuring global peace and security, they are not able to deliver on that because of the stratification of global society, vis a vis the major powers, including the current P5 makeup. India, together with South Africa and other like minded countries like Brazil, have been saying that in the current global milieu, you cannot have a Security Council that does not represent the current architecture of the world. And I think this is where, again, we are very like minded in terms of calling collectively for a comprehensive reform of the United Nations system, and especially the Security Council. Now many countries have come out openly supporting the candidature of India, including having an African presence in the Security Council. And I think, yeah, we are like minded, and we'll continue to champion this great injustice where you have an entire continent excluded from the Security Council, that the agenda is mainly dominated on issues pertaining to the African continent. On the global issues pertaining to climate change and climate action, we are part of BASIC, we share common views in terms of what we'd like to see in addressing the challenges around climate change, we cooperate very closely within the COP structures, like we are doing now in the current COP 29 meeting that's taking place in Azerbaijan and some of the major challenges that directly impacts on us. Yes, we have all made commitments to transiting from fossil fuels to green energy, we have set our emission target reductions, and we have made this public, but we have a common challenge in terms of the commitments made by the global north in terms of climate financing that is not being fulfilled, the commitment made in terms of technology sharing, and not linking technology to intellectual property rights, that becomes an impediment to us to also share in new technologies in order for us to transit and addressing some of the the the new barriers that are being brought to the table in terms of carbon tax, for example.

Sidhant Sibal: Moving from climate change to something you've already raised is G20 and BRICS. I want to ask this question specifically for two reasons. First, you were the Sherpa, and there were several engagements. We all saw your active role last year when it came to the South African presidency. And it was under the South African presidency that the major expansion happened, and that has been a template of sorts. The second of course, is your country. In the last 24 hours, we got the baton when it came to hosting the G20 Summit, we saw those visuals of the Brazilian President handing over the baton to the South African President Cyril Ramaphosa. So essentially, if you can talk about what South Africa brings to the table when it comes to both the G20 given it hosts the Summit and the BRICS grouping, where is it leading?

Anil Sooklal: When BRICS Came together for the first summit in 2009 it was without the presence of South Africa, and when you were creating a new grouping of countries to focus primarily on the challenges and fault line that exist in the contemporary world and as it especially impacts on the global South, you could not have an African voice there. And that is why there were overtures made to South Africa to come and join BRICS. And that completed bricks, in a sense, because you now had through South Africa, an entire continent also having a voice within the BRICS family. And I think it has been South Africa's view from the very outset that when we became a member of BRICS, it was not just about South Africa, it was also about the issues pertaining to the African continent. And we have had the privilege of chairing BRICS for three times now, from 2013, 2018 and 2023 and you would see this a common trajectory in all of our chairship of BRICS, that the team always focused on Africa, as it did last year as well, because BRICS provides us a platform to mainstream the issues pertaining to the African continent, collectively as part of the global South, with our fellow BRICS members. But BRICS has grown over these past 16 summits that have just been concluded in Kazan into a powerful force for global good, not just in terms of the weightage of BRICS. I think that's by the way, and too much attention is focused on the BRICS GDP being larger than the G7 GDP, the BRICS share of global energy, BRICS share of global demography, and so forth. These are important issues, but they are not the critical issues. The critical issues are the substantive issues that BRICS is bringing to the table to create a more, fairer, just an inclusive, global architecture. When in 2015 we adopted the SDGs, the catch phrase was, leave no one behind. But we are over halfway towards 2030 and we are only 17% on track. And if you look at the SDGs. The SDGs in the main addresses the challenges facing the global south. And if we are not on track with delivering on the SDGs, who suffers, it is us, the global south and the African continent. So for us, BRICS has become a very important platform to continue to champion the issues that pertain to the collective global South, but also the larger global community. BRICS is not about dividing the world. We've never seen ourselves as a counterweight to any other entity. And now, I think this year, when we adopted the model of partner countries and a number of countries that have joined. One is a NATO member, and another is a member from Europe. So BRICS is transgressing the north, south divide and being inclusive, which is what the mantra of BRICS has always been. It's about being inclusive, being fair, being just, and creating a global architecture, be it on the political, security, financial, economic, trade front that is fair and just and that truly leaves no one behind. Now, of course, with regard to the G20 and as your presidency demonstrated, because we have ourselves as founders and guardians of the United Nations system, we have weakened the multilateral global order because of the unilateral trends of some country that has undermined not just the office of the Secretary General, but the whole edifice that is the United Nations system. If you go and look at the preamble of the UN Charter, the UN Charter speaks of living as a global community, in coexistence, in harmony and at peace with each other, we are so far removed from what that very lofty preamble set out in 1945. The UN is our entity. It belongs equally, to each and every one of us, no matter how rich a country is, how poor a country is, how small a country is, or how large a country is, it is equally our instrument and our platform to address global issues. Now, I think the G20 emerged as a result, as we know the history, because of the financial crisis, but today has become the pre-eminent global economic financial body addressing global challenges. Of course, the global community is a large community. You always need a select group of countries to provide leadership. And I think the G20 coming together originally to address the economic and financial fault lines, was not just about the select 20 countries. It was a group of countries that have the resources and means that could provide leadership. And I think this is what we must always remember. Why was the g20 created? It was not created for 20 countries and a few regional organizations and international organizations sitting around the table. It was created to provide a platform by the leading economies of the world that have the means, the resources, and also to serve as the trust of humanity as a whole, to serve the interest of the global community. And that is why your motto, Vasudeva Kutumbakam, was so central to what the G20 is all about and should be about. And I think that's why India's presidency was so successful, because you took the G20 to the people. It wasn't a G20 of just governments coming together. It was taking g20 into every corner of society, into every village and town, and say, you have this organization that discusses issues pertaining to your well being, discusses issues of poverty and under development and inequality, and addressing some of the challenges that favors a certain group of countries as against others. And I think that came out very clearly. Now South Africa, of course, Brazil, built on that, and I think we must congratulate Brazil for doing an excellent job under very trying circumstances in this very polarized world. We assume the presidency of the G20 on the first of December, and President Ramaphosa received the gavel yesterday at the closing ceremony of the Rio Summit, and we are very privileged for many reasons. Firstly, it's the first time that the G20 summit comes to an African country. And I think this is a proud moment, not just for South Africa. It's a proud moment for all of Africa that it will demonstrate that Africa is equally capable of rising to the occasion and providing leadership, not just leadership as president of the G20 but during our presidency, to show that South Africa and Africa as a whole will hold the torch high and demonstrate that we can add value in shaping The new global order that's emerging now on various fronts. Now our president yesterday outlined some of the key priorities for South Africa's presidency. Now if you look at those key priorities, which I will speak to shortly, they're no different from what has been the focus of the past several presidencies. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. We must continue to build on the platforms of the past 19 summits, and we will host the 20th summit in South Africa in November next year. But we have a fantastic platform to build from the very first summit in 2008, we laid a platform on all fronts, be it on addressing global political security challenges in addressing the financial and economic challenges, and of course the cultural, social and people to people issues that G20 is very seized with. Our President also outlined yesterday, three key priorities for South Africa's presidency. Firstly, economic growth, industrialization and employment. Now these are key three challenges that must be addressed in solidarity with the rest of the world. Addressing issues of industrialization has been part of the G20 agenda for a long time, because this is critical, not just to Africa, but I believe the global south for us to claim our rightful place within the new industrialization template that we have that is dominated by digital and new technologies. Secondly, he spoke of food security. Now you have seen and Prime Minister Modi also spoke of this in Rio, the 3F- fuel, fertilizer and food as being the key challenges the global community face today, and the era of conflict that we live in has severe impact on the poorest of the poor, and this impacts especially around food security. As we Have seen and heard yesterday at the summit, over 735 million people are living in extreme poverty today, the majority of which is in Africa. So food security is fundamental, not just to Africa and to South Africa's presidency, but I think, for the global south and the global north as well, because we are seeing pockets of poverty emerging even in economies of the Global North. And of course, thirdly, he's spoken of artificial intelligence, innovation and sustainability. We live in this new era. And as was also one of the side events that India initiated, and you had the Declaration on the digitization and looking at digital governance that India is at the forefront of, and also digital infrastructure that you are at the forefront in. And I think these are key areas that South Africa also wants to work with India and the global community, digital, public infrastructure you lead in the world. And we have seen the value it brings not only to Indian society, and our President has spoken of the value of this in South Africa and what it can do to transform Africa's development and help us leapfrog into the future. 

Sidhant Sibal: My last question to you is on the cheetahs. We know that there was conversation and you sent cheetahs to India as well. Now is there any next step?

Anil Sooklal: Well, you know, Cheetah diplomacy, or big cat diplomacy, as Prime Minister Modi referred to it last year when he met with President Ramaphosa. And one of the things he raised is that, firstly, thanks South Africa for sending cheetahs to India, and also saying that we want more cheetahs. And President Ramaphosa promised that we will send more Cheetah to India. We are very pleased to see that they are starting to acclimatize. And I think it's both a win-win situation for South Africa and for India in that we could preserve a species and also have them introduced into the Indian environment. And I believe I recently read that one of them is pregnant, so we may even have the first babies born in India, but I think it's such a feel good story. I think this is such a feel good story in terms of ensuring the continuation of an endangered species, but also reinduce Introducing the cheetahs into the Indian environment, is a story that's not only feel good, but our contribution to ensuring the sustainability of our planet and all forms of species, and the big cat species is something that Africa and India will continue working on, and we definitely want to send more cheetahs.